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1 point by CatDancer 5697 days ago | link | parent

It would be a mistake to take the atomic out of expansions of =

Right, but it's also a mistake to leave them in. Too much locking is as bad as too little; e.g. (obj a (readfile "foo")) will hang my web server if reading foo happens to take a long time.

Here's my current chain of reasoning around locking...

Arc's approach to programming is exploratory, building larger programs out of small, composable parts.

Locking is a problem with exploratory programming because buggy locking code usually works most of the time, unlike bugs in functional code which are usually visible. With exploratory programming, you try things and see if they work. Sure, with functional code there are the corner cases that you miss and the occasional incorrect algorithm that happens to return the right value for the input you give it, but most of the time with exploratory programming you try things and you get to see that they don't work. But with locking, you throw together some locking code and try it out, and hey, your program runs and doesn't hang and gives the right answer. The bug, if there is one, only bites once in a blue moon when the different threads happen the hit the code in exactly the wrong way.

There's an interesting social aspect to this as well. I've noticed that if I tell someone about a bug in their code, it's less likely to get fixed if it's a threading bug. If their code returns the wrong value for an input, they say "oh my gosh!" and fix it right away :-). But if it's a threading bug, well, yes, it looks like a bug, but the program appears to run ok anyway, so there's little urgency, and how do we know if we've really fixed it or haven't added another threading problem?

The social aspect goes both ways. One of the things I find so delightful about Arc is that because of your work to write concisely, I can look at a function and say "oh, there's a bug". Or, at least that the function isn't doing what I want it to do. Which I can't do with most code, not as easily, because it is surrounded with so much cruft. But I don't have the same feeling of clarity when I look at Arc's locking code. I can read through the code and perhaps pick up on a locking bug or two (e.g. atomic-invoke), but overall, is everything locked that needs to be? Anything locked that shouldn't be? I can't tell. This part of Arc feels like regular software to me... complex enough so that I imagine there are probably bugs, and I don't expect to be able to get them all.

Composibility with locking is a problem too. You have a couple of perfectly good expressions (obj a 1) and (readfile "foo") and you put them together and they break.

My next thought in the chain is, so why use threading anyway? MzScheme only runs on one CPU, so what threading gives us is a) not having to call yield in a long CPU intensive calculation and b) having our program execution randomized for us so that our program doesn't return the same output for the same inputs... unless we very carefully add the right locking in the right places.

So my current inclination is to rewrite the web server to a single threaded event driven model.



1 point by CatDancer 5697 days ago | link

single threaded

Or maybe something like Erlang, where you're not stuck with a single thread, but you're also not trying to deal with sharing modifiable data between threads either.

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